The AU Review: Interview: Creators Cian O’Clery and Karina Holden on Love on the Spectrum and the importance of diversity
Love on the Spectrum has captured the hearts of people all around the globe. The Netflix docuseries looks into the very real and honest experiences people on the spectrum go through when it comes to navigating the complex world of dating.
Over the last three seasons, the show has created a safe space for participants to feel open to experiment and learn about dating, with all the nuisances that come with it, at their own pace. We’re lucky enough to be able to get a glimpse of the lives of these kind hearted people, and this is all in due part to the empathetic lens that is cast on the show. There are no flashy lights, or scripted dramatic scenes, it’s authentic and true to the lived experiences of the participants in the show.
What the show has done incredibly well over the last few seasons, is help dispel any preconceived stereotypes or perceptions of the autism community. But most importantly, the crux of the docuseries is to show the power of connection and love in all forms.
Shantelle Santos spoke with the creators and showrunners of the Emmy winning show, Cian O’Clery and Karina Holden from Northern Pictures about their journey with Love on the Spectrum over the years and the importance of the diversity of the autism spectrum.
How would you compare your initial journey in bringing this show to life, to where you feel the show is at the moment?
Karina Holden: Oh gosh. I was on stage at the Los Angeles launch for season 3 last month, and I was so overwhelmed with emotion with just how proud I am of how the show has affected so many people. And being in a room with an audience, because you’re making shows that go out and you see that it’s sitting there in the top 10, you go “Okay well people must be liking it” and “People are writing about it”, but to just be in a room with people responding – and especially because we had everybody from season three on the stage with us for the first time, all the participants were together with their family and friends – the emotion of that and just knowing that you’ve been instrumental in bringing this awareness and these people together has shown how profound the impact has been. So, the participants and how it’s changed so many people’s perceptions and misconceptions have really created such a “bridge the gap” in how autism is understood worldwide and just opened this representation of neurodiverse individuals into a more inclusive storytelling globally, it just feels like such an incredible ride to have been a part of.
Cian O’Clery: It has been a wild ride, that’s for sure! From coming up with the idea over seven years ago, to developing it with Karina, pitching it to the ABC, seeing the Australian series blossom, and finding us where we are today, (now) filming Season 4 of the US version. The series has evolved over the years and engaged a global audience, but is still produced in the same way we did in the early days. It’s still an intimately filmed character-led series, and we never lose sight of what makes it special – the participants.
Do you feel like you felt the impact on the community and people in general more this season in comparison to last season?
Karina Holden: I think so, and I think part of it (the American season) is as its deepened we’ve gotten to know people better and see their relationships develop, there is so much success. There was such a sense of people really overcoming their obstacles, growing in their confidence and really having breakthroughs and reaching points of independence. Seeing that growth of the participants that naturally happened just meant it was so rewarding, and then you have that internal experience of a few participants in the shows and the stories they’re telling, but then to see season 3 be the most successful of any season so far in terms of audience reach has been so incredibly fantastic. Because then you know that those stories are meaning something to that broader community. And you start to see it pinging around in the zeitgeist and appearing up on the Daily Show as a counterpoint to something that RFK has said in the news in American politics, or it’s suddenly referenced as a cultural zeitgeist moment in a comedian’s act, and it’s like “wow look how far we’ve come!”
The engagement from the American season has been so great and profound, especially on social media. Do you think that there’s any room to bring back an Australian season? Or are you more focused on the American seasons for now.
Karina Holden: Pulling together the American seasons is a big thing, so that’s where we’re focused for now, but we’d never say never! It’s such a joy to make this show, and as long as there’s an appetite for it and people are asking for it, then that’s a broader conversation of how things work. But with the Australian participants who were involved in the series, there’s so much respect for them. They really set the tone and people all over the world had this new view of Australia and its beautiful landscapes, its unique people and its gentleness and kindness from the show when it started off. So I think that it started the rhythm of how that drum would beat into the show as it then became an American show, and what was so beautiful was the fact that Netflix doesn’t want to change it, we kept things the same. We kept the same team, we kept the same editors, the same director / showrunner is our Australian Cian O’Clery who co-created with show with me, it’s still made by Northern Pictures, and they didn’t need us to move onto an island and get people in bikinis and have a whole lot of plot twists (laughs).
It was the authenticity of the way the show started as a docuseries in Australia. And yes, the participants themselves have become so popular and people know them, because America itself is just supercharged for that. The platforms and the engagement that the participants have found from being on the show there, have made them quite well reaching, and they even stand head to head with certain reality stars now. But it’s still from our point of view; the way that we make the show, the way that we engage with the people and we work with them, we were still coming into this as documentary filmmakers.
Cian O’Clery: At the moment, we are focused on our current series, but never say never!
What is so great about the show is the authenticity we feel from the cast. We’re fortunate enough to get a glimpse of the complexities of their lived experiences on the spectrum without ever crossing a line of exploiting them. What do you do on set to ensure that the cast feels safe and open to share these stories on camera and help them feel listened to?
Karina Holden: We’re a really small team, so when Cian is on set he’s shooting second camera with one other camera person and sound recorders, and then we have an associate producer who has built that relationship alongside Cian with the participants. So (other) reality shows might have 20 people on set, or more, but we’re very small. But we’re also really low impact. We’re filming in and around people’s lives, as opposed to taking them out somewhere. Or we’re setting up dates and those are in local, small restaurants and not huge song and dance acts. Although if there are huge song and dance acts it usually comes from the participants themselves, and they go, “Hey I know a place with a piano where I want to perform!” which is fabulous. But it’s their lives, it’s what they like to do. We always set up our protocols around filming around having contained times and being able to tap out and say “I don’t want to start shooting until the afternoon” or “I only have this amount of time” so we’re not taking people and locking them into an environment like you would a Big Brother or a Traitors or a Love Island, and putting the cameras on them 24/7. You’re getting people when they want to be on camera, and if they don’t want to be on camera, the camera turns off and we work with them to make sure everything is low impact. It’s them, according to their schedules, their lives, and their wishes.
Cian O’Clery: There are many ways we work to make sure everyone is comfortable, but I’d say the main thing is that we let them know they are in charge, if they ever want a break or to stop filming, we will. We like to say we are filming on their terms, not on our terms. Also keeping our shooting crew very small helps a lot, for a US production we are a tiny team, but we like it that way and so do the participants. It’s also important to note that each and every person is different, and what is needed in terms of support for one person may not be for another. So we tailor our approach according to each person.
It also probably feels better for the participants to be around their families on the show. How was it working with their families?
Karina Holden: Its context of our lives isn’t it? There’s some people who are living with their families, some people who are living independently, but we’ve always kind of shown what their home life is like, what their work is like, or who their friendship groups are, so there’s a whole spread. But obviously there’s a large proportion of participants who are in this series in their 20s and a lot of them don’t have full time work, so (they) aren’t necessarily living out of home. So we do get to meet their families and their siblings, but for us, Love on the Spectrum isn’t just about romantic love, it’s about the love that you get from your friends, your supporters, your siblings, your pets, and the things that you love in life.
The love is familial love. It’s all of those things. So it’s the nicest way to debrief or to prepare for something and to be able to voice your concerns with the people you love, which is why we have that authenticity as opposed to having people behind a panel leaning in and commenting on what they think that person is feeling. It comes from a safe place, as someone who is supporting them and thrashing out any of those problems or insecurities or questions that they might have, and so that’s also part of the authenticity, is that you’re in that safe place with people. If they don’t want to be part of the show they not part of that show, but I think when people see that they will be well represented and respected in their boundaries, then they’re happy to be apart of it because they can see how some people who have been a part of the show, it has largely lead to confidence and success for them.
I’ve loved seeing the cast appear on talk shows and podcasts over the last few months. How has it felt seeing the cast come into their own over the years?
Karina Holden: It is wonderful, and I think part of what we’re thinking about with the shows we make is that we kind of almost look for people who don’t want to become famous. That shouldn’t be their rationale, because it feels like everyone is manipulating each other, and you want the audience to fall in love with real people who are being real. And the fame that has subsequently come because of the show makes you want to prepare them for it in a safe way. It happens to some and not others, so you feel really aware of that and you want to celebrate success where it’s there, but there’s a whole lot of feelings that come up, almost like parental feelings that are involved in these shows from the beginning as well. But at the end of the day these people that we are working with, they have to have lives that they can potentially have other opportunities and maybe it leads to ways that they can also earn more money.
A lot of them have become influencers and are getting the opportunities to be brand ambassadors, or be speakers on the circuit for autistic causes, or be hosted on podcasts. The song that Abbey performed on the The Kelly Clarkson Show was at 15 million views in the first week, and was one of the more successful social clips that Kelly Clarkson’s show had ever launched. So you can just imagine if that is Abbey’s dream to be able to sing and perform! She’s been invited to perform at the Hollywood Bowl and at the Greek Theatre in Los Angeles, and that’s just unbelievable. And how many people have dreams like that? That are sitting on these dreams, and just want a door to open slightly. We’ve been able to open these doors for some good people to do some good things and create those ripples, and are so proud and want more power for them.
Cian O’Clery: It has been amazing to see them enjoying the limelight, and appreciated for being themselves. Something a lot of people may not have had growing up. It’s great to see audiences really embracing all of the participants, and we hear how validating it can be for people to be admired and loved by so many.
There have been so many successful couples on the show over the 3 seasons. What’s your process in finding matches for the cast? And do you feel like a certified matchmaker at this point?
Karina Holden: It is really amazing to see, but that song that Abbey performed for David, I was there when that all happened. We were in this beautiful winery in Sonoma, and you just thought, “This is going to be fantastic.” But then when she sang, and you go “Oh my God, this song is going to totally take off”, it’s so catchy it’s brilliant! Then with the Emmy Nominations, we were going to put lots forward and said “Isn’t there a song category? Is there a way that we can get Abbey’s song put forward for a potential nomination?” So my fingers are crossed that she will actually make the shortlist because that would be extraordinary. But just in terms of couples, Pari and Tina are still together, Madison and Tyler are still together, Connor and Georgie are still together, James and Shelley are still together! It was wild and it completely blew our expectations, We started shooting with Cian in Los Angeles, and myself usually in Sydney at Northern Pictures, (and) we have our calls and catch ups, and he was just like “It’s not going to work, I’m just not sure that this season is going to be great.”
So there was a real doubt that connections weren’t going to be made and there were a few false starts, and then seeing things suddenly catch fire, we were just blown away. There’s also something that the show is almost modelling back to diverse people, the success of love and how it can look for them, and they come into the show with such a positive mindset. Maybe the first thing at the front of their mind is “I am going to actually find a person who I’m going to love” as opposed to “This show is going to give a great exposure and I’m going to become a TV star.” I think they’re so fixated on this idea, and it’s definitely when we’re looking at people that we want to feature within any season, we look at who wants this the most, who is so hungry for it, and that they’ve got that positive mindset. So that’s part of it. And I think that now with experience being able to match has just become a skill that our producing team has got really good at, so there’s a bit of magic of the show, but it’s such a great thing to see.
Cian O’Clery: We are definitely feeling like matchmakers after Season 3! As a producing team we do all the casting ourselves, and that means finding matches for our main participants. We don’t really have any rules apart from looking for people we think they might get along with, based on who they are and what they tell us they are looking for in a partner. A lot of it comes down to gut instinct, and knowing our participants as well as we do, sometimes we really do get it right.
How important was it to have Pari on this season representing the queer community?
Karina Holden: Representation in all of its diversity and all of those different touchpoints is something that we always look for. I mean we didn’t cast her because she was queer, she was just gorgeous! She was just somebody who was so compelling, and I just love her family. Her mother has just got the most beautiful heart and her sister is incredibly sweet, and just as a family together there was something new and different. The fact that she was queer was just power to her. That was who she knew who she was, and we love to see when she met Tina. We were all blown away, because we thought it would be a good match but we had no idea it would be a slam dunk straight away. And they’re going so strong. So diversity in all of its forms will always be important across the series.
Congratulations on the renewal of season 4! Is there anything you can tell us about what season 4 will bring?
Karina Holden: (Laughs) Aww, poor David and Abbey, everyone wants to know if it’s going to happen, I feel sorry for them. We’re following their relationship, and their relationship has to happen at the right speed for them. So we can’t be putting pressure on people to do things that they wouldn’t be doing. And of course we will always be excited when people are taking steps forward. Whether that be moving out of home, or moving in together, or getting engaged, We would absolutely love to tell those stories, but we have to go at the pace that their story is unfolding. So we’ll see what will happen! But it will be as it happens in real life for real people. We will also see some new people in season 4, who we’re really excited to introduce! That’s always something that we’ve looked for, is that there’s a little bit of last season, but there’s also some new people to learn about, because our intention has always been to expand that understanding about diversity within the autism spectrum and that there’s always, as much as we love character based documentaries, things to learn and a real social purpose to the show for us that we really want to make sure is coming true. So new participants give us new stories, new perceptions, and new understandings.
Cian O’Clery: Thank you!! We’re very happy to continue telling stories of some of our beloved participants, and we’ll be meeting some new singles looking for love too! But most importantly, continuing to highlight the diversity of the autism spectrum.
